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Will versus Trust?

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  • matthew55
    replied
    If my memory gets worse then power it is. 👍🤗🤔🧐xx

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  • Positive vibes
    replied
    Time for an update. My parents have had a long discussion with a solicitor. They have decided their best options are (and I realise this is geared to them personally and may not be suitable for all):

    1. Get LPOA sorted for them both ASAP - for health and welfare. All siblings nominated to carry out their wishes. To be drawn up, signed and registered ASAP. Enduring POA remaining in place. Needs registering only if mental capacity totally affected so not needed to register yet.

    2. Re-drawing will - so:

    a) Tenants in common re home to be registered. This then allows:

    b) Surviving spouse has life interest in home i.e. the peace of mind that the surviving spouse remains at home as long as they want/until deceased (with provision in discreet trust (if any excess capital) if surviving spouse wishes to move). This latter seems unlikely as neither want to move, but, its there in case needed.

    c) Discreet trust addition. 50% of deceased spouse property into trust, 50% with surviving spouse. This means that future care provision only applies against 50% of property.

    d) Liquid assets i.e. savings/cash 100% to surviving spouse (which should cover any future care needs, adaptations, home maintenance, normal living costs and hopefully enjoyment for surviving spouse!). Small investments - again any income from these to go 100% to surviving spouse.

    e) Letter - informing trustees of a full description of parents wishes regarding discreet trust, funeral, service, etc. To be written up, checked, sent to solicitors to be kept as hard copy (although we will have a draught copy also). Hopefully no stone will be unturned so we have it in writing exactly what they want, down to how they want property dealt with on both being deceased, beneficiaries, etc.

    Apologies if some of this sounds grim. However, Dad is anxious Mum is protected, as the sad likelihood is he will pass before Mum. This also protects him, if unfortunately Mum pre-deceases him, so they are both protected a little against future care costs, and saved a little of any inheritance for the kids/grandkids. They have said they don't wish everything to be swallowed in care costs, but, are quite happy for any savings needing to be used. I am pleased, as they worked hard for retirement, and are hopefully going to enjoy their savings too...

    I really hope this gives them (and us) all peace of mind, so they don't have to dwell on 'worst case scenarios' any more, and can just get on with enjoying the rest of their lives, making the most of their time.

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  • Positive vibes
    replied
    Originally posted by Mary C View Post
    Glad I got these sorted out as offers me peace of mind .
    Best wishes
    Mary
    Second that. With bells on.... really think Dad is worrying too much about what will happen to Mum if he falls off the perch first. So, if they do this, at least he knows Mum has some protection as well as some funds.....

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  • Mary C
    replied
    Trouble is Matthew that wills only count when you die.Whereas Lasting Power of attorney allows you appoint somebody to act on your behalf and in your best interest while you are alive with both health and financial decisions.

    I made sure my GP scanned my health LPA into my medical record so as if and when I can’t make my own decisions or communicate our 2 adult children and my husband Steve can step in.

    This was my decision and glad I have that sorted along with my Respect form( previously referred to as DNAR)
    I kept copies of both forms so if I need any hospital admissions they will accompany me.
    The Respect form is also forwarded to the local ambulance service( according to my palliative care nurse who helped complete it with me).
    Glad I got these sorted out as offers me peace of mind .
    Best wishes
    Mary

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  • matthew55
    replied
    Need a good free Will writing service being old fashioned v😀x

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  • Positive vibes
    replied
    Hello All

    A quick thank you to Richard for the nice chat today, that's cheered me up & cleared some things up....

    Another update:

    An advice call booked with a local solicitor has now clearly explained Mum and Dad's options at the moment, so I hope this is helpful for anyone in a similar position:

    1. Stay as they are (standard will 100% of estate/assets to surviving spouse, then, any remaining (possibly nothing if Mum has to go into care/have carer's) ultimately to 'us kids' + Enduring POA).

    2. Change to ''Trust in Will", with continuing EPOA.

    To elaborate on 2. this means Dad will be able to put 50% of his estate/assets in Trust for us lot, if he so chooses (his kids), with the remaining 50% of their estate/assets to go to Mum if he pre-deceases her (or vice versa). Effectively, worst case scenario, if Mum does have to go into care (or needs a lot of paid carer's attending her at home), she still has 50% of their assets to fund this. However, if their home has to be sold to fund this, 50% of the home proceeds will pay for her care. I hope this makes sense....

    Solicitor also advises us doing an LPOA for Dad's health and welfare, (& probably Mum needs one too now) essentially, giving him a voice if (when?) he can't do this for himself. Which feels horrible to apply for, but, I would advocate fiercely for him (& Mum) to stay home, as this is their biggest concern & want.

    Feels rather low on our priorities to be honest, but, as sibling pointed out, its better to bite the bullet, ask parents if they want or choose to do this now, than wait until they can't make that decision.... Better that they realise the options, than worry or stress about it later when they might not be able to change it. They have always assumed that what they have set up, meant 'the kids were alright' when they were gone.... never assume anything.....

    MND is a barista-steward in more ways than one. Never thought I would have to even think of asking them to consider all this..... I may say I fall into the 'do nothing' camp and happy to leave as is. However, I do not want Dad or Mum stressing out thinking that they can't leave anything to the kids or grandkids because of 2 bluddy awful diseases either.

    Hope this helps someone out there, trying to make sense of it all, its a bit mind-boggling....

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  • Positive vibes
    replied
    Originally posted by richard View Post
    Positive vibes LPOA,s are very important and should be done urgently whilst your mother and father know exactly what they are doing. There are two, one is financial and the other is health and they cease to be of effect when the person dies. It alllows the person(s) nominated to make decisions on the others behalf. Without the finance one banks will not allow a spouse, sibling, child etc to operate the persons sole bank account. This could mean pension moneys being frozen and no immediate funds for day to day living.

    Everyone with a family should have LPOA’s. Healthy people suddenly have strokes heart attacks or can become incapacitated through injury.

    First thing tomorrow you should arrange an urgent meeting with your solicitor.

    Richard
    Thanks Richard.

    The butt-kicking of myself is starting. My parents have nominated my other brother and myself as POA, so had already asked me to take on the role of being their carer as he is out of county. But POA was only briefly touched on in our family meet up. We even touched on banks being frozen if Dad pre-deceases Mum, but, I am not sure this sunk in with Dad even though they say they share a joint account.... So much covered about the medical and personal care, and who will do what.

    It is as much a case of us all wanting to believe the end is a long way away, and not wanting to be negative, for all of us sadly. I am going round theirs now, and discussing this as urgent, bite the bullet time....

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  • richard
    replied
    Positive vibes LPOA,s are very important and should be done urgently whilst your mother and father know exactly what they are doing. There are two, one is financial and the other is health and they cease to be of effect when the person dies. It alllows the person(s) nominated to make decisions on the others behalf. Without the finance one banks will not allow a spouse, sibling, child etc to operate the persons sole bank account. This could mean pension moneys being frozen and no immediate funds for day to day living.

    Everyone with a family should have LPOA’s. Healthy people suddenly have strokes heart attacks or can become incapacitated through injury.

    First thing tomorrow you should arrange an urgent meeting with your solicitor.

    Richard

    Leave a comment:


  • Positive vibes
    replied
    Originally posted by richard View Post
    This is something you need legal advice on because in one way it’s simple and in another complex in so much you don’t want to create any avoidable issues. You would also need to do it whilst both of your parents are fully aware and understanding what they are doing.

    May I suggest that you, as you seem to have inherited this role, and your brother go and see a solicitor together. The first appointment should be free, tell them what your concerns are and parents wishes, tell them they will need to come to your parents home and ask what the fees would be. Pick a firm with expertise and don’t be afraid to ask when making an appointment you want to see someone with expertise in wills and trusts.

    Richard
    Thanks Richard

    This has helped me to get my thoughts clearer. I will discuss with my parents today, get their clearer thoughts on this (not sure they want to face any change anyway, but, I want them to examine the options themselves before their final say) and see which solicitor they have used to draw up their wills, as it makes sense to me to use someone they know/have confidence in. Then I will book solicitor ASAP & get my brother along.

    We can then discuss the solicitor's options (their solicitor should also have a copy of their wills) and advice. In the end, I want it to be their decision, but I want to make sure they have an informed decision. I am wondering if this is as much to reassure my brother, as my parents and myself, that we are doing the best possible actions for them. Really wishing I don't have to do this, but, I need to face up to the probable reality of Mum being vulnerable and alone...

    I also had a heavy hint from the MND nurses to get LPOA actioned now, which is another thing I don't really want to do, as it is like accepting the end is a lot closer than we think... I still think I am in a bit of denial, to be honest, and also Dad too, a little... so I am kicking myself up the bottom today....

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  • richard
    replied
    This is something you need legal advice on because in one way it’s simple and in another complex in so much you don’t want to create any avoidable issues. You would also need to do it whilst both of your parents are fully aware and understanding what they are doing.

    May I suggest that you, as you seem to have inherited this role, and your brother go and see a solicitor together. The first appointment should be free, tell them what your concerns are and parents wishes, tell them they will need to come to your parents home and ask what the fees would be. Pick a firm with expertise and don’t be afraid to ask when making an appointment you want to see someone with expertise in wills and trusts.

    Richard

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  • Positive vibes
    replied
    Originally posted by Lynne K View Post
    Hi, sorry no experience of this but wanted to wish you luck getting your questions answered. It sounds to me like a useful piece of research and you are a smashingly daughter to be tackling this. Love Lynne x
    Thanks Lynne K

    That's most kind of you to say. I hope it helps if anyone else is worrying about this.

    It really isn't my first priority, as he has set up wills, but my brother is a worry wart. I think because I am at the parents and sorting the day to day stuff, medical appointments, etc. I just worry I might be missing something important as I am trying to organise things for them, drive them where they need to be, sort out repairs from the fire.... he has offered to take them to a solicitor, but, I don't want to push them to do it if they are happy with things as they are, if that makes sense?

    I thought it was all settled, and one less thing to worry about, but then again, we never envisioned Dad getting MND or Mum possibly having dementia at the same time (all whilst trying to sort out insurer's, fire repairs). Hellish year for them....

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  • Lynne K
    replied
    Hi, sorry no experience of this but wanted to wish you luck getting your questions answered. It sounds to me like a useful piece of research and you are a smashingly daughter to be tackling this. Love Lynne x

    Leave a comment:


  • Positive vibes
    started a topic Will versus Trust?

    Will versus Trust?

    Hello all

    I hope I am posting this in the right place, please move if I am not. I have delved around the forum, but, don't see this topic addressed (apologies if it has)

    After our family meet up, and discussions about how to help Dad (recent diagnosis of MND, ALS, age 82), my brother feels strongly that Dad shouldn't have a standard will set up, but, given my Mum's probable diagnosis of early dementia, they should re-draw this as a trust. He feels that firstly, this will protect their assets (and avoid probate fee), and secondly, we could ensure Mum is looked after, should her condition deteriorate further and she won't be able to make decisions (or worse, be vulnerable).

    I have tried browsing, not too effectively, on the pro's and con's of this, but he is extremely concerned about what potentially may happen to Mum should Dad pre-decease her (which seems the most likely outcome sadly) and she is on her own. Worst case scenario then needing a care home, although we want to look after her in her own home, where she would feel most comfortable (and would help with her memory issues?).

    As far as I can gather, the main difference is no need to pay probate fee's, or, wait for probate, and being able to safeguard their assets. Dad doesn't seem too interested in changing anything which I can understand (age, tiredness, symptoms), and I think he feels things are already sorted.

    Does anyone have experience of this? Does it really make that much difference? I.e. is it worth the hassle, solicitor fee/advice, and, frankly, is it worth bothering Dad with this? He already has a lot to cope with. My brother's feeling is that he should do it now, whilst still mobile, talking, and whilst Mum is still 'with us mentally' most of the time despite her episodes.

    I would like to know, because I don't want to stress them out with additional legal concerns, whilst they are still getting used to the recent diagnosis. I think left to me, I would just accept what Mum and Dad have already decided, but I worry that I am doing them a disservice if this affects Mum in the future.

    Not expecting full legal advice (maybe I need to have a session with a solicitor for advice), but people's previous experiences would be helpful, if they have had any.

    Thanks in advance all!
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