DNR's and ADRT's

[WheelsOfSteel]

Trigger Warning - This discussion may involve views about end-of-life choices.

I did a search on here for certain words, and most of the discussion dated back to 2019 so I wanted some fresh views.
I have previously mentioned that I was considering a "DNR" (Do Not Resuscitate) tattoo, and researching this has found a lot of discussion (what doesn't these days?) mostly around the fact that just having a tattoo is not legally binding without the proper DNR paperwork.
I am not quite ready to sign up for DNR, but after another month or two of putting my affairs in order I reckon I will be.

My thinking goes like this - I am NOT going for ADRT (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) because if my condition progresses as expected I may need to move on to things like NIV and tube feeding which I am prepared to do (for a while at least).

However... If something else happens to put me in a life-threatening situation (bad Covid, heart attack, traffic accident etc.) then I would not want intervention to bring me back to the state I am in now where I am waiting for the MND to get me.

Looks like the answer is to get the DNR decision properly recorded and certified when I feel ready - then get the tattoo and keep the paperwork on me at all times.
Looks like I have answered my own question. Please don't feel obliged to start a debate - it has just helped me to actually write it down and make my thoughts known.

[denise]

If this helps, or not, I'm not sure. I have legal power of medical attorney and when Stephen was in hospital I was pretty much told they wouldn't resuscitate. Didn't really want my opinion. 🤔

[WheelsOfSteel]

Thanks denise That's another bit of legal paperwork we should get in place a bit further down the line.

[denise]

WheelsOfSteel you can do it online. It's easy but getting everyone to sign in is a pain.

[Music man's wife]

When Chris was first diagnosed he did an ADRT, he was certain he didn't want a PEG or a tracheotomy.
However like you he wasn't prepared to agree to a DNR. Anyhow one day a GP came out and said they could impose a DNR on him and this is what they did.
Luckily Chris didn't feel too strongly about, which is only just as well!

[denise]

So if the

[denise]

Damn my post went before I could finish it. So if they can impose a dnr what's the point of asking people what they want? Stephen wanted to be resuscitated. 😳

[Christopher]

Reading and thinking.

[Claireflo]

My dad completed a Respect form with the hospice. It covers things like whether he would want to go to hospital for treatment that could make him better but then come home, that he does not wish to be resuscitated and he wishes to remain at home as long as possible.

It's another route to look at. We also have medical power of attorney in place.

Difficult things to contemplate for individuals and their families but it think it's best to think about these things early and then refresh as things change.

[shelly21]

I did respect form and my own adrt. You have to be very specific. Mine is not to resuscitate. Also no life sustaining treatments (life support).

I've also said that I will instruct my partner re 24hr dependent on n.i.v and when I want to withdraw. Plus stopping nutrition and hydration.

The hospice doctor reviewed and signed my adrt. The nurse sister signed my respect form.

[MMG]

Hi

We researched this extensively.

The ADRT form is only for when or if you do not have capacity to make your own decisions. That would be if you suffered dementia or the results of a stroke or accident etc. This is legally binding and is quite specific and detailed. It could not be used unless you were assessed as not having capacity yourself.


If or when you get to the point when you may wish to withdraw from treatment and have the capacity to make that decision you don't need an ADRT. You just need to be able to make your wishes known.

The respect form is not legally binding but records your wishes which you would hope are taken into account. This basically states whether you value quality of life over longevity.

The LPA is for when or if you do not have the capacity to make decisions yourself and hands that responsibility to the person / people named on the LPA. Again, like the ADRT would only be used if you do not have capacity to make decisions yourself.

in my husbands case, he had the Respect form, LPA and ADRT, but when he withdrew from treatment none of them were required as he still had capacity to make the decision himself. It did help in that his wishes had been documented and discussed at length in the production of those documents so it was obvious that his decision wasn't being made on a whim or when he was feeling particularly low. He had been consistent in his views throughout.

For him, knowing that he had ultimate control (whilst having capacity) actually kept him going. He also wanted to avoid others having to make difficult decisions if possible. He got great comfort from knowing that he could decide when the time was right.

[Zante]

MMG that's really helpful information and explains it so easily. Thank you.

I do often think of you and hope you are managing. So incredible of you to be helping others here. Xxx

[MMG]

Zante I am OK. One of the "perks" of MND is that you suffer anticipatory grief which does give you time to prepare (sort of) for the very final stage. Don't think I will ever be the same as I was pre diagnosis but I have had huge comfort from knowing that the end was how he wanted. Part of me is glad he is no longer suffering.

But all of me wishes he had never got this awful disease.

He was an amazing man and said that after he had gone I would have two choices
1) curl up and waste the rest of my life regretting how it turned out, and wishing it was how we had planned
2) embrace my new life and live it to the full.


I am trying to do the latter - but some days like today I couldn't be bothered even getting showered and dressed. That is the first day I couldn't be bothered since he's gone and I partially put that down to feeling rough after my COVID booster. So today its ok to feel sorry for myself. Tomorrow is another day. xxx

[Zante]

MMG am about to switch off for bed but wanted to reply. I think you are very brave and I admire your outlook.

Having the will and desire to get up each day and face the day is so hard after losing a loved one.

I think the covid booster is a totally acceptable reason for a lazy day and don't blame you cos it made me feel yuck and most people I know did too!

Take care. Thinking of u xx

[denise]

It does make me wonder how many of us do all the paperwork but when, like Stephen, was taken to hospital and I was told to take an overnight bag actually thought to take any documents.