Website update

[richard]

I was just thinking about all the lovely postive things that will make us blush, nowt negative.

[Graham]

How much did you pay to set it up Ellie? I thought Ireland used Euros?

[Ellie]

How much did you pay to set it up Ellie?

Nothing.

I thought Ireland used Euros?

It does.

[matthew55]

Do you live on the Emerald Isle mate? 🌍😁😘😍xx

[Graham]

How much would the average non-techi MND user have to pay to set up the dwell times etc and how much of the screen does it use?

Is it available on Windows, Mac, Android and Linux?

Dublin I think Ellie has said Matt.

[Ellie]

How much would the average non-techi MND user have to pay to set up the dwell times etc

I am not a techie.
Install Tobii drivers by following prompts.
Download open source mouse software. If default settings aren't suitable, it's straightforward to change any or all. There is no setup required.
Or use Windows eye control software.
Therefore, no need to pay anything.

how much of the screen does it use?

Depends on the software.

Is it available on Windows, Mac, Android and Linux?

Windows.

Quite surprised you're having to ask these questions, you being in the tech business.

[Graham]

You misunderstand Ellie, I am interested to know how much a user of this forum with moderate/advanced MND is expected to fork out in order to use this forum. The MNDA required that I ask.

I am pretty sure that even an average user will struggle to install and require support after paying £129 for the software. I assume that the PC's camera is used nowadays. This again may be an issue for users with old laptops. They may need a new laptop.

It ain't gonna be cheap with not much change out of £700 in some cases.

But even then, there is no predictive text, just an alternative input method.

My conclusion is that this forum needs predictive text morally and maybe legally to avoid disablism.

But thanks for all the info. xx

[Doug Carpenter]

I am interested to know, Graham, what model you intend to apply to the apportionment of IT asset values between their various day to day functions, e.g. email, online banking and shopping, social media, etc., in addition to forum posting.

When it comes to misunderstanding, I am worried that your second paragraph mentioning £129 software and PC cameras could suggest that you have misunderstood not only what Ellie told you about her Torbii 4C but also the basics of Eyegaze itself.

Also bear in mind that nowadays, in the UK, years after Ellie had to pioneer her bespoke system, we can be assessed for our need for Eyegaze – just like a grab rail or wheelchair. It should be supplied by your Electronic Assistive Technology Team or whatever that group is called locally.

Doug

[Ellie]

I am interested to know how much a user of this forum with moderate/advanced MND is expected to fork out in order to use this forum. The MNDA required that I ask.

If a forum user has difficulty using standard input methods to use a PC, they can be assessed by an AAC/AAT service and provided with appropriate alternative access methods, tablets or laptops, up to and including, full eye gaze systems. In England, an Ace Centre usually carry out this service on behalf of the NHS. Short answer: no charge for those qualifying by needs.

I am pretty sure that even an average user will struggle to install and require support after paying £129 for the software.

As I said, the software I use is free. I paid £129 for the eye tracker hardware. I think you overestimate the difficulty of clicking Yes to an Install prompt and underestimate the average user's ability to follow onscreen prompts and/or to click Turn On eye control in Windows settings. The software is ready to go.

I assume that the PC's camera is used nowadays. This again may be an issue for users with old laptops. They may need a new laptop.

Not entirely sure where you think a camera would come in, certainly not needed if using eye tracking hardware. There is some free head tracking software available, perhaps you mean that?

The MNDA also has a grant facility which could be used to buy a higher spec tablet/laptop, if necessary.

[Graham]

The sad fact is that many of us are unable to even type as our MND progresses and the flawed points presented only comfort the MNDA.

The camera tracks the eye.

Each individual has a budget in the NHS and the MNDA won't provide grants for equipment that the NHS are able to provide.

Yes, good predictive text would be useful for us in many ways Doug. I guess you too will realise this soon enough.

[Ellie]

The camera tracks the eye.

A webcam can only 'estimate' the position of an eye/the eyes as it's only one camera and I guess may be rather frustrating and slow to use, unlike eye tracker hardware with its multiple infrared sensors tracking eye movements and far superior field of view, giving a much more precise location of the eyes which makes for precise 'clicking'.

I don't know of any software using a webcam to track eye movements which gives full computer control, e.g., enables internet access, and is not just enables text-to-speech.

Which product /software are you referring to when you say "the camera tracks the eye" and I can evaluate it for you?

[Graham]

I last looked at Tobi Eyegaze about 2 or 3 years ago. Time seems to pass very quickly atm. At ~£400 it was a little expensive but it didn't seem to help me much and the extra clutter on the screen was a pain. I opted not to buy.

I use the Windows AI predictive text but it only has 3 suggestions. There always seems to be other details that make it awkward to use.

The best that I have found was Facebook but only in 'Tablet' mode! It is obvious that no one with an actual impediment developed any of these systems.

Thanks anyway xx

[Ellie]

I last looked at Tobi Eyegaze about 2 or 3 years ago [...] it didn't seem to help me much and the extra clutter on the screen was a pain.

Given your extensive experience in the IT world, once again your apparent lack of understanding about assistive technology surprises me. Tobii eye trackers are hardware so contribute nothing to that “clutter on the screen”, which is solely due to whatever software is being used. The free open-source software I found from a not-to-difficult search, takes up a (movable) 2cm strip down one side of my screen, giving me an excellent working screen environment.

I use the Windows AI predictive text but it only has 3 suggestions.

Given your demands for a predictive text function on this forum, I am expecting the bells & whistles App you're altruistically developing will have such functionality for text input, as well as having icons etc. accessible to all users, from those with clumsy fingers, non-standard mouse users up to eye gaze users, all of whom may need differing ease of access refinements.

Good luck with the App development.

[Graham]

I guess you are having a bad day Ellie.

The MNDA and you expect far too much from us 'thickos'.

Please treat your carers with the respect they deserve.

[Ellie]

I guess you are having a bad day Ellie.

Quite the reverse, I'm having a great day, thank you for caring.

The MNDA and you expect far too much from us 'thickos'..

I can't speak for the MNDA, but you frequently berate Admin_MND for practising "disablism" through not being fully accessible to every forum user, so I naturally expected you to know what you were talking about, coupled with the fact you have extensive tech experience, so much so, that you're developing a care related App, which is admirable.

That is why I expressed surprise re your lack of apparent understanding of eye tracking hardware and software.

I offered to help.